| architect7 Offline • • • Upload & Sell: On
| p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Nikon Auto AF fine tune does not work, here is why (D500, possibly D5) |
Update: Per my post further below, Nikon auto AF fine tune is missing the last two steps in the process it attempts to use. 5/3: So I had a revelation today after shooting 2k photos of eagles and ospreys with varying results. Apparently the auto AF fine tune feature uses the first number it matches with the focus attained via Live View AF. That's it, no further calibration takes place in the camera. This would explain the extremely mixed results people are seeing with this feature. Those of you familiar with the dot tune method of AF calibration will agree that using a number at either extreme of the confirmed focus range will not be adequate and best results are found when adjusting AF fine tune to a number in the middle. Sure enough, my testing tonight after using dot tune is yielding far better results. Hopefully Nikon plans to fix this feature in a future firmware update. Until then, keep using dot tune. 5/1: After laboring over auto AF fine tune on my new D500 last week across my 3 super-teles and various TC combos, I was ready to chuck it all off a cliff. Then after reading various users' feedback, I decided to print a Siemens Star for my target subject: Siemens Star So far the results have been extremely close, +/- 2 at the most with not a single random outlier. I would imagine this also works well for the D5. Hope this helps! Edit: Another possibly better target option is this cross-hatch chart created by snapsy (also posted below). Thanks snapsy! DotTune variable-width cross-hatch chart (PNG) Edited on May 06, 2016 at 08:44 AM · View previous versions
| May 02, 2016 at 12:35 AM |
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frdjohns Offline • • • Upload & Sell: On
| p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Nikon Auto AF fine tune does not work, here is why (D500, possibly D5) |
Thanks for posting this.
| May 02, 2016 at 02:27 AM |
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snapsy Offline • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
| p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Nikon Auto AF fine tune does not work, here is why (D500, possibly D5) |
Based on my DotTune testing (which Nikon's automated method in the D5/D500 likely uses), the best AF target is a variable-width cross-hatch pattern. I started with a Siemens Star but found the lack of explicit horizontal+vertical detail would lead to inconsistent results. Here is the cross-hatch chart I created: DotTune variable-width cross-hatch chart (PNG)
| May 02, 2016 at 02:40 AM |
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architect7 Offline • • • Upload & Sell: On
| p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Nikon Auto AF fine tune does not work, here is why (D500, possibly D5) |
snapsy wrote: Based on my DotTune testing (which Nikon's automated method in the D5/D500 likely uses), the best AF target is a variable-width cross-hatch pattern. I started with a Siemens Star but found the lack of explicit horizontal+vertical detail would lead to inconsistent results. Here is the cross-hatch chart I created: DotTune variable-width cross-hatch chart (PNG) Cool, thank you! I will try this tomorrow.
| May 02, 2016 at 05:04 AM |
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Mark_L Offline • • • • • Upload & Sell: Off
| p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Nikon Auto AF fine tune does not work, here is why (D500, possibly D5) |
architect7 wrote: After laboring over auto AF fine tune on my new D500 last week across my 3 super-teles and various TC combos, I was ready to chuck it all off a cliff. Then after reading various users' feedback, I decided to print a Siemens Star for my target subject: Siemens Star So far the results have been extremely close, +/- 2 at the most with not a single random outlier. I would imagine this also works well for the D5. Hope this helps! It shows just how poor af systems still are in the real world. It is very easy to get into a situation where the errors in the af system each time are greater than any tolerancing issue. Worth also noting amount of light affects things. Less than 9EV (which is quite bright) and things get worse quickly.
| May 02, 2016 at 11:25 AM |
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reggieb Offline • • Upload & Sell: Off
| p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Nikon Auto AF fine tune does not work, here is why (D500, possibly D5) |
I have a coffee pot box that works beautifully. It's for this coffee pot: http://www.amazon.com/Mr-Coffee-BVMC-SJX33GT-Programmable-Coffeemaker/dp/B0047Y0UQO?ie=UTF8&colid=32QN285EG5QF0&coliid=I34RZ6Q7Z76L7H&ref_=hit_wr_dt_vr_md_pt Not kidding, gives more more consistent results than the actual target for fine tuning that I have, and the result is the camera being quite accurate with all of my lenses. Except the 14-24 because the value needed for about 14-17 is very different than for 18-24. Good times.
| May 02, 2016 at 11:40 AM |
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architect7 Offline • • • Upload & Sell: On
| p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Nikon Auto AF fine tune does not work, here is why (D500, possibly D5) |
So I had a revelation today after shooting 2k photos of eagles and ospreys with varying results. Apparently the auto AF fine tune feature uses the first number it matches with the focus attained via Live View AF. That's it, no further calibration takes place in the camera. This would explain the extremely mixed results people are seeing with this feature. Those of you familiar with the dot tune method of AF calibration will agree that using a number at either extreme of the confirmed focus range will not be adequate and best results are found when adjusting AF fine tune to a number in the middle. Sure enough, my testing tonight after using dot tune is yielding far better results. Hopefully Nikon plans to fix this feature in a future firmware update. Until then, keep using dot tune.
| May 04, 2016 at 06:22 AM |
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snapsy Offline • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
| p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Nikon Auto AF fine tune does not work, here is why (D500, possibly D5) |
architect7 wrote: So I had a revelation today after shooting 2k photos of eagles and ospreys with varying results. Apparently the auto AF fine tune feature uses the first number it matches with the focus attained via Live View AF. That's it, no further calibration takes place in the camera. This would explain the extremely mixed results people are seeing with this feature. Those of you familiar with the dot tune method of AF calibration will agree that using a number at either extreme of the confirmed focus range will not be adequate and best results are found when adjusting AF fine tune..Show more → Thanks for this. Did you reach this conclusion by performing both a DotTune and Auto AF-Tune using the same established focus in LV (ie, on a tripod, the same target and focus, doing a DotTune and Auto AF-Tune right after each other)?
| May 04, 2016 at 01:31 PM |
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architect7 Offline • • • Upload & Sell: On
| p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Nikon Auto AF fine tune does not work, here is why (D500, possibly D5) |
snapsy wrote: Thanks for this. Did you reach this conclusion by performing both a DotTune and Auto AF-Tune using the same established focus in LV (ie, on a tripod, the same target and focus, doing a DotTune and Auto AF-Tune right after each other)? Yes, all while using the cross hatch image you shared above. Same distance, focal length, etc. Same conclusion with 5 different attempts at 500mm on my 200-500mm f5.6E, w/ and w/o TC-14E III (5 separate attempts with the TC as well). This was actually the exact same behavior I observed with my 500mm f4D AF-S II w/ and w/o TC-14E II but I did not realize what was happening that day until my testing with the 200-500 last night.
| May 04, 2016 at 03:31 PM |
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Steen DK Offline • • Upload & Sell: Off
| p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Nikon Auto AF fine tune does not work, here is why (D500, possibly D5) |
On this Thom Hogan page see the fourth paragraph: 'Does Autofocus Fine Tune actually work?' http://www.dslrbodies.com/newsviews/so-many-unanswered-question.html
| May 04, 2016 at 06:26 PM |
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Auto Fine Tune D500Mark_L Offline • • • • • Upload & Sell: Off
| p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Nikon Auto AF fine tune does not work, here is why (D500, possibly D5) |
Oh dear, if true it looks like Nikon have half arsed it again. It makes me wonder if anyone at Nikon actually uses the gear they sell.
| May 04, 2016 at 08:36 PM |
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architect7 Offline • • • Upload & Sell: On
| p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Nikon Auto AF fine tune does not work, here is why (D500, possibly D5) |
Steen DK wrote: On this Thom Hogan page see the fourth paragraph: 'Does Autofocus Fine Tune actually work?' http://www.dslrbodies.com/newsviews/so-many-unanswered-question.html
Looks like an unrelated lens issue but it is worth mentioning that my 200-500mm barely focuses in Live View using the cross hatch image as a target. Live View AF functions perfectly with normal subjects so probably a different issue than what affects the 80-400..just more weirdness to stoke the fire.
| May 04, 2016 at 11:31 PM |
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trenchmonkey Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
| p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Nikon Auto AF fine tune does not work, here is why (D500, possibly D5) |
Nikon Auto AF fine tune does not work Moot point for moi. Of my 11 AF lenses only 3 needed any 'tune' on the D500. One at +2 and the other two at +1. AFAIC, Nikon nailed this body..bigtime! (everything I shoot moves, so homie don't 'live view' YMMV)
| May 09, 2016 at 01:55 PM |
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snapsy Offline • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
| p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Nikon Auto AF fine tune does not work, here is why (D500, possibly D5) |
architect7 wrote: 5/3: So I had a revelation today after shooting 2k photos of eagles and ospreys with varying results. Apparently the auto AF fine tune feature uses the first number it matches with the focus attained via Live View AF. That's it, no further calibration takes place in the camera. This would explain the extremely mixed results people are seeing with this feature.
FYI, I asked Marianne Oelund (very knowledgeable engineer who posts on dpreview) to try this experiment on her D5 and she was unable to reproduce the results. In her testing the auto-AF tune produced the same tune value as DotTune's midpoint.
| May 09, 2016 at 02:15 PM |
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gdsf2 Offline • • • Upload & Sell: Off
| p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Nikon Auto AF fine tune does not work, here is why (D500, possibly D5) |
snapsy wrote: FYI, I asked Marianne Oelund (very knowledgeable engineer who posts on dpreview) to try this experiment on her D5 and she was unable to reproduce the results. In her testing the auto-AF tune produced the same tune value as DotTune's midpoint. I know the answer should be no, but given the two reports (yes small sample) we have in this thread, is there any chance Nikon implemented auto-fine-tune differently in the two bodies - D5 and D500?
| May 09, 2016 at 04:53 PM |
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architect7 Offline • • • Upload & Sell: On
| p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Nikon Auto AF fine tune does not work, here is why (D500, possibly D5) |
snapsy wrote: FYI, I asked Marianne Oelund (very knowledgeable engineer who posts on dpreview) to try this experiment on her D5 and she was unable to reproduce the results. In her testing the auto-AF tune produced the same tune value as DotTune's midpoint. Interesting, the D5 owners I have spoken with did not get similar results between auto fine tune and dot tune. But they were testing with long focal lengths as well. Do you know which lenses she tested with? And is she a Nikon employee? trenchmonkey wrote: Moot point for moi. Of my 11 AF lenses only 3 needed any 'tune' on the D500. One at +2 and the other two at +1. AFAIC, Nikon nailed this body..bigtime! (everything I shoot moves, so homie don't 'live view' YMMV) I don't think any of us shoot moving subjects with Live View..it's only used for the fine tune calibration, unless I missed your point.
| May 09, 2016 at 05:52 PM |
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trenchmonkey Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
| p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Nikon Auto AF fine tune does not work, here is why (D500, possibly D5) |
I don't use live view to fine tune..crazy huh?!
| May 09, 2016 at 06:16 PM |
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gdsf2 Offline • • • Upload & Sell: Off
| p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Nikon Auto AF fine tune does not work, here is why (D500, possibly D5) |
trenchmonkey wrote: I don't use live view to fine tune..crazy huh?! No,using LV and following the dot-tune method is just one method of manually fine tuning.
| May 09, 2016 at 07:20 PM |
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CanadaMark Offline • • • • Upload & Sell: Off
| p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Nikon Auto AF fine tune does not work, here is why (D500, possibly D5) |
Months go I predicted this feature was going to cause Nikon more headaches than anything else, especially since they themselves recommend you don't actually use it haha ('not recommended in most situations, use only when required' etc. etc.) Time will tell, but I think a lot of new users are going to be using this feature expecting miracles, and getting disappointed since it is not very clear to the average user or even those reading the manual just how limited AF fine tune is.
| May 09, 2016 at 08:26 PM |
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snapsy Offline • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
| p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Nikon Auto AF fine tune does not work, here is why (D500, possibly D5) |
gdsf2 wrote: I know the answer should be no, but given the two reports (yes small sample) we have in this thread, is there any chance Nikon implemented auto-fine-tune differently in the two bodies - D5 and D500? There's always a chance but I'd guess it's very slim architect7 wrote: Interesting, the D5 owners I have spoken with did not get similar results between auto fine tune and dot tune. But they were testing with long focal lengths as well. Do you know which lenses she tested with? And is she a Nikon employee?
I believe she's an electrical engineer by trade but does a lot of in-depth technical analysis on her Nikon bodies. She's done a lot of work analyzing its AF system (like this thread). She's also renown for putting a ton of clicks on her D3/D4 series bodies - I think she's taken a few million photos in total.
| May 09, 2016 at 08:59 PM |
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2end
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Nikon D500 Settings Guide
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